At the Frontline Club in London, a venue long associated with media freedom and international reporting, Thomson met with Nobel Peace Prize laureate Malala Yousafzai and Rukhshana Media founder Zahra Joya.The conversation took place ahead of a panel discussion on the role of Afghan independent media under Taliban rule.
Malala, youve been involved very heavily with Rukhshana Media, and supporting it. What is the importance of the work that is being done by them? Malala: Rukhshana Media is playing a really critical role at this time because we all know that Afghan women are silenced, the journalists are threatened, and especially female journalists are putting their lives at risk by telling the stories of Afghan women and what they are going through in this country. And Rukhshana Media is one of the few platforms that is actually the voice of the Afghan women. Despite the dangers and the threats that they face. So in this moment, its really important for us to amplify their voices because they are bringing attention to the truth, to what is happening on the ground, how womens rights are violated, how women activists are getting imprisoned and getting tortured. And its really putting everything on record and at the same time, bringing attention to exactly what is happening right now.
Zahra, the challenges your journalists face are immense. How are they managing to operate? Zahra: Well, first of all, I would like to say a huge thanks to Malala and the Malala Fund, because they are supporting us and supporting, basically, the female journalists in Afghanistan. So I am working alongside almost 10 journalists on the ground, mostly female. And its really hard to gather information from inside the country, because every single information coming out should be under Taliban control, and it should be first reviewed by the Taliban. But my colleagues, they are working independently, and they are bringing first-hand information from inside. Its really hard. Its a risky job. And basically, my colleagues are taking their lives in their hands to gather information. I think, as Malala mentioned, its important for us to break the silence. Women of Afghanistan are forced to be silent. Its hard, but I think they are very brave, they are courageous, and they are working. I think their work is essential for us at the moment.
The voices of the women of Afghanistan and the voices of women in many other places are not necessarily being heard. Why do you think that is Malala? Malala: Its really frustrating, to be honest, because we have been talking about womens rights for so long. And it happens to be a month in a year and or a day comes in a year where everybodys talking about womans rights and everybody believes in equality. And then when, in reality, womens rights are violated and under a threat, then we witness a silence. So, I believe that in moments like these, we really need to test our true commitment to gender equality and people who are ahead in using the word should also be ahead in taking actions as well. Afghanistan right now is a country where the worst violations of womens rights are happening. Its the only country where girls are banned from secondary education for more than three and a half years. Its the only country where women are denied any public appearance, any political participation, any role in work, they are literally banned. And if they dare to step outside these rules, theyre punished, theyre beaten up, they are threatened. So theyre paying a price for simply daring to have these rights. When I think about what Afghan women and girls are going through right now, it really makes me want to do something for them because I really admire their resilience and how they are doing their activism. So to all our friends, our colleagues who believe in gender equality who are feminists should also join this call and share their solidarity with Afghan women in this most difficult time.
That is such an extreme form of gender oppression that we have to call it a gender apartheid
Malala Yousafzai, Nobel Peace Prize laureate
You both share the phrase gender apartheid'. Its a strong phrase. Why is it gender apartheid? Malala: As the phrase of gender apartheid sounds strong, such is the violation of human rights in Afghanistan. I think words like gender discrimination and gender persecution fall short in explaining the scale of oppression that the Taliban are imposing on women and girls. They have issued more than 100 decrees and edicts, the majority of which are targeting women, limiting them in their work, education, and any appearance in public life. And that is such an extreme form of gender oppression that we have to call it a gender apartheid . The incredible women, the activists, the researchers who actually stepped forward and using this terminology thought about it really carefully. And they have been working together with these human rights experts and activists from South Africa who are also talking about the similarities between the situation that women in South Africa were facing where even they feel like gender was not properly addressed as part of their struggles, as part of their activism, and in this moment there is this sense of sisterhood, where women are feeling that the way that they are oppressed is not recognised in the same way, and we cannot just look away and see it more as a domestic problem, see it more as an internal issue. This should be seen as a global issue. This should be addressed both on moral and on legal international law basis.
The international community has said that the Taliban should look at the way they treat women and should change it. Is that enough? Zahra: No. The way that the Taliban are treating women is so harsh and so brutal. And as Malala mentioned, theres more than 100 decrees on edicts the Taliban issued, and most of them targeted
